Everything End of Life.
This podcast is dedicated to talking to experts and others about all aspects of death and dying. You know, that thing we don't really want to talk about!
As a hospice carer and former psychiatric nurse as well as writer and former Theatre director, I invite guests to talk about their roles in and what to expect in the last four weeks of life. What happens to the person dying, what help is there, what to do before and after the event.
Many of the families we go in to see have one thing in common and that is that they don't know what to expect. I thought that a Podcast may help and then discovered so much to explore that is of interest to people such as alternative funerals, what do Hospices actually do, what role do religions play?
So join me for the first interview as we begin this Podcast with Clinical Nurse Specialist Becky Rix where we grasp the nettle and discuss what happens to us generally in those last four weeks.
Time to explore "Everything End of Life".
Everything End of Life.
Breaking Barriers in Foster Care
People, we need more people to consider becoming Foster carers which is a paid profession! See if this is for you and if you can get involved.
Dive into the heart of foster care with Elle, the passionate founder of Eastern Fostering Services. Her journey from nurse to fostering advocate spans over three decades, rooted in a childhood where fostering was "in her blood" through her experience working with Barnardo's.
Elle reveals the stark reality facing the UK's care system today – a deficit of 6,000 foster families while placement requests have skyrocketed from 50 to several hundred weekly. This growing crisis highlights why independent fostering agencies emerged as essential partners to local authorities, offering specialized support that consistently earns "good" to "outstanding" Ofsted ratings.
The conversation takes us behind closed doors to understand the profound trauma many fostered children carry. From children who eat under tables rather than at them to those unable to use basic cutlery, these behaviors reflect deep wounds that require patience, understanding, and specialized support. As Elle poignantly explains, healing sometime requires double the time a child spent in trauma before meaningful progress emerges.
We explore the potential of preventative "edge of care" services that could support birth families before separation becomes necessary, addressing the intergenerational cycles of trauma that often lead children into care. Elle challenges listeners to consider how society might better address root causes rather than symptoms – both in foster care and broader social issues.
For anyone considering fostering, Elle offers candid insight: "It's probably the hardest thing you'll ever do, but also potentially the most rewarding". Success comes in "little wins" – those precious moments when a child begins to trust, to heal, to believe that not all adults are the same. The strength of community also shines through as we learn how foster families support each other, creating networks where both carers and children find understanding and belonging.
Thinking about fostering or simply want to understand this vital service better? This episode offers a compassionate, eye-opening look at the challenges and profound rewards of providing a safe haven for our most vulnerable children.
For those interested in what Palliative care looks like at home there is "The Last Kiss" (Not a Romance)
Available on Amazon now
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Kiss-Romance-Carers-Stories/dp/1919635289/ref=sr_1_1?crid=13D6YWONKR5YH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9._59mNNFoc-rROuWZnAQfsG0l3iseuQuK_gx-VxO_fe6DLJR8M0Az039lJk_HxFcW2o2HMhIH3r3PuD7Dj-D6KTwIHDMl2Q51FGLK8UFYOBwbRmrLMbpYoqOL6I5ruLukF1vq7umXueIASDS2pO91JktkZriJDJzgLfPv1ft5UtkdQxs9isRDmzAYzc5MKKztINcNGBq-GRWKxgvc_OV5iKKvpw0I5d7ZQMWuvGZODlY.fqQgWV-yBiNB5186RxkkWvQYBoEsDbyq-Hai3rU1cwg&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+last+kiss+not+a+romance&qid=1713902566&s=books&sprefix=The+Last+kiss+n%2Cstripbooks%2C107&sr=1-1
Hello, welcome to Everything. Foster Care, with me Joseph Cattrall, and the guest yesterday is Elle. Okay, first thing, elle is the head of Eastern Fostering Services, which is an independent fostering agency. Correct, that's correct. Yeah, so why start the fostering agency? Why start?
Speaker 2:up a fostering agency. I suppose, if I go right back to being a tiny baby, fostering's always been in my blood. So my grandparents fostered my aunt as she is, as she's always been to me through Barnardo's. So, years ago. So I grew up, I was supposed to be fostering in my DNA, perhaps not even really realising that, to be be honest. So I went into nursing to begin with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're both telling the same.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely yeah. I mean the huge learning of birth in life and actually gave me so much massive insight to people and I veered away a little bit from fostering in my early career and I wanted to specialize in mental health because I suppose again it's about what makes people tick and the interesting stuff that happens when things go wrong and how we support people. Um, but I then, when I trained to be a social worker, my last ever social work placement was with Barnardo's, oddly enough, so I was sort of a full-time and from that point onwards fostering was for me. So that was 33 years ago now 33 years ago.
Speaker 2:Now I'm not being a millionaire and actually independent fostering agencies not existing in those days. That wasn't the first thought, and I worked for Barnlythe Rose for several years and I then went to work for Foster Gay Associates, who at that point were one of the first independent fostering agencies to set up.
Speaker 1:Okay, so tell me, why was there a need for an independent fostering?
Speaker 2:agency, I think.
Speaker 1:It's a very tricky subject. This one isn't it.
Speaker 2:It's quite political and actually FCA at the time were they weren't popular at all. Local authorities, you know, absolutely saw them as profiteering really. But I think also that Jim Coburn, who set FCA up, he kind of had a vision that there was this mismatch, which continues in this country, between the number of fostering families and the number of children needing foster care.
Speaker 1:Well, at the moment I'll just ring this up we've got a deficit of 6,000 foster families. Now that's, you'd think, oh, it's quite a lot, but it's not staggering enough. But that doesn't represent the amount of children going through those post-reset homes. So I think that would probably just take a while. Uneducated kids, you know, if you've got two kids going into one family, you know, and maybe for a year, two years, three years, you've then got more kids going through that family. Other times it might be three or four kids going through it. So we're looking into the tens of thousands. Yes, so that's a bit more.
Speaker 2:It's staggering and I'd certainly say anecdotally. From when we first set EFS up, sort of 14 years ago, the number of requests for children that we had were perhaps 50 a week, which was still quite a lot for a little tiny agency. It's now several hundred a week from local authorities all over the country. So, kind of tracking back to why IFAs were set up, it was because somebody saw that there was something that wasn't working properly the local authorities's ability to recruit and maintain the right numbers of fostering families. I think we all come from the point of view that fostering children needing foster care that's the final point.
Speaker 2:In terms of options for children, we would much rather they live with their families of propriety, course, but when that isn't possible for lots and lots of different reasons, foster care is an essential and an absolute needed resource. Yes, so we need fostering families for those kids to be able to have a decent childhood, a safe childhood. So that need is there. So that's why independent fostering agencies have fallen up, and actually there was something in that formula that worked. That need is there, so that's why independent fostering agencies spun up, and actually there was something in that formula that worked. And certainly in the old days of fca, we called it teen parenting and it was where we had therapy. Um, we even had our own schools for children who didn't fit into the school system. Um, and there was and, and the support around the foster carers was just recognised as being of paramount importance. Yeah, and I think we're still at that point today where actually we've more. So think, if we don't get the support around the adults right, we're never going to get the support of the kids right.
Speaker 1:It is interesting. Another thing that I was reading was that the Ofsted report was saying I don't know about local authority, how they fare with Ofsted, but independent fostering agencies have been consistently good to our saving, and what they cite is the training given and the support given to the foster care. Yeah, who can then obviously pass that? Down to the children for their caring support.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think when you're a smaller organisation you can tailor your training a little bit more to the families and what they need at the time that they need it. I mean, there's no matter how much training you get in the world, sometimes it doesn't help you.
Speaker 1:I'm very alert.
Speaker 2:You know, we're supporting children with such trauma and such complex levels of needs. Sometimes that's just, you know, it's beyond what we can offer and we're, you know, so sad that we accept that and maybe, so maybe, it's that more personal approach that we can make. And actually I would note that when we're inspected by Ofsted, even as a very small agency, they are in with us for an entire week. We usually have two inspectors, sometimes one, so we are under very close scrutiny and those inspections happen every three years and you're given very minimal notice. So that is a good yardstick in terms of how we're doing.
Speaker 1:Essentially, it sounds like they just fly in and say I'm surprised we're here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You've got to be operating really well all the time.
Speaker 2:Absolutely and we'll pick at random. You know four children, four families, sometimes more, to really zone in on and look at what you've done. And Ofsted have changed tack a bit in the previous couple of years in that they're focusing much more on outcomes for children, right? So they're really looking at what is it that we put in to give the outcomes for those kids? And we know that some of our children a good outcome might be actually that we do move them to another family because we have to recognise who can meet their needs and where that doesn't work. For other children, a good outcome will be going to university or, you know, finding a place on an apprenticeship scheme or all sorts of things.
Speaker 1:It's the same with such a fee. People ask me why do you foster? And I'm really kind of answer for that. I'm still struggling there that way, but we do love fostering. One of the things I think is important is and we found this when we were fostering is people are not aware of what it's like for the kids to have come from a damaged home. Yeah, and they're trying to fit in to a school, uh, a friendship ring, uh, with not the wrong, the right tools, yeah, and and that becomes very evident, and I'm sure there's lots of kids that do fit in really well, and I was thinking it's off to the foster carers to do this. The interesting thing is a lot of people that I've talked to have no idea that the foster carer is even there, and when they see some children in the supermarket having a meltdown, having a breakdown, we've started looking and going. I wonder is that a trauma or are they just being?
Speaker 2:You start to recognise that trauma. Yeah, and now it gives you a slightly jaundiced view of the world as well. And I think with my safeguarding hat, with children in my family, I'm so aware of the world as well and I think with my safeguarding hat, with children in my family, I'm so aware of the things that perhaps you just don't in the general population. I'm more hypervigilant, you know, around potential risks that children have got and it's odd, it's an odd world to exist in. It is. I suppose it makes us more sensitive. I hope it makes us just aware that actually not everybody does live grow up in happy, loving families and actually lots of people in society don't.
Speaker 1:I've heard well, I haven't heard of, but I've read, and this was a staggering thing for me one in twenty children will be sexually abused to their next child. And I used to go to. As you know, I break children's books. I used to go to school and when I'm looking back, I'm looking back and I'm remembering some of the faces that just look a bit glazed over and you just wonder. You know that's one in 20, there'll be 30 in the class, so the chances are there'll be some.
Speaker 1:You know there's trauma going on, either neglect or sexual abuse, and it's just a thing that's in such numbers. Yeah, I wonder and I'm going to get a little bit political here is if there have been more uh money going into schemes like Cure, start yeah, uh, and other family services that we will see. Less need for fostering yeah, and other family services that we will see less need for fostering?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're not Absolutely From the bloat.
Speaker 2:Those preventative services, yeah, I also think that you know I don't want to criticise local authorities because I think they're under massive pressure and they try to do their best and some authorities do outstanding work but they're governed by government policy.
Speaker 2:And way way back when we first started EFS, I thought about whether we could offer and what was what's called an edge of care service, where we worked closely with children's birth families and foster carers and helped to support those birth families to look after children and address the trauma within the family, often from traumatised parents, so working with the parents as well and prevent that pathway into full-time care. And it has never really took off and I don't know that there's ever been a real wish for it, maybe because of money or whatever. But wouldn't that be fab? I'd love to do that. I think it would be challenging and difficult work and it wouldn't work with all families, but there's some families. You just think, with that little bit of extra help, with that wraparound support that we can provide, that we do with our foster carers, we might be able to make a difference.
Speaker 1:So it's not about resolving one particular issue, but all the issues within the family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a regular pattern that we see that the families that our children are coming from are adults who really need their own support. And it's no lack of love for their kids. It's actually their own trauma that just dominates and that doesn't really get addressed Right. So we have this cycle that goes on and on and on.
Speaker 1:I like that. What you said was front-loading the type of institute.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah that.
Speaker 1:I think, is where, as a society, we probably need to go so much more.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I liken it and again this is slightly political, I liken it to the number of refugees that come into this country. We see that as a very hot potato that people feel very divided about. But what we don't seem to be capable of doing is looking at the root causes of why they're coming into this country. And it's because we have global war, we have displacement of people and people being oppressed in their own countries, so they flee. They'd actually much rather live in their own country. They don't particularly want to, you know. I mean, some people might have been sold a real, you know, love story about what they're going to get in the UK.
Speaker 1:It's supposed to pay the dollars.
Speaker 2:Exactly, which we don't know. You know isn't going to happen Again, despite you know rumours otherwise, and it's similar with children, I think, who are in care. That actually it's root cause. Let's look at root cause. You know Parents don't deliberately have children to not look after them. Stuff happens in their life and things go horribly wrong and we really need to look at that. We're ever going to reduce the number of children in care. So as much as I want to say, let's recruit more fostering families, which we absolutely need to in the long term.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what this whole podcast is really about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the long term, Actually, what we're doing to stop that flow other than not leaving children in dangerous and abusive situations for longer than they need to, because that's something that we also start to see a pattern, yeah, Certainly. Compared to 10 years ago, the children who are leaving our social families are so much more complex and have harm on so many different levels compared. You know, a decade ago children still had that trauma, but I don't know it wasn't to the same degree.
Speaker 1:Is this because maybe the social workers from local authorities are more reluctant to split families up Because they've been criticised?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah, and they're under pressure to not bring children into foster care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when actually therapeutically there might be the better answer.
Speaker 2:Even if it was short term.
Speaker 1:So then, work with the family, you know it comes back to your age of care, sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, so that's.
Speaker 2:Give families a bit of breathing space. Work with the adults. I know social workers in our team have often spoken about their frustration of not being able to work with the adults. You know the families that children have come from. Yes, you can see it. You can see the need that the families and children have come from.
Speaker 1:You can see it, you can see the need. Yeah, it's like you weren't treating the symptom without treating the cause Totally. So we're going back to psychiatry.
Speaker 2:Totally, yeah, absolutely. And understanding adult mental health yeah, because actually there's a huge you know, although that was what I was drawn to at the beginning of my social work career, we've got lots of that going on in fostering Lots of adult mental health issues. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the best thing about being a foster carer, do you think?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I don't want to be cliched and say knowing you've made a difference, because sometimes it feels like you haven't. With an osteogen, I think, I often say at our progression to foster groups it's probably the hardest thing you'll ever do and I don't want to grieve what you're off.
Speaker 1:It sounds not that hard to say.
Speaker 2:I mean, we know, but obviously on this, on a soul level, on a, on a level of of being a good person in this society and I'm offering something back and actually offering children an opportunity to see that not all adults are going to hurt you, neglect you or ignore you. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah, even if it's for a short period of time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And wow, isn't that amazing. What other opportunities do we have in this world to make that kind of difference?
Speaker 1:Yeah, certainly, from my point of view, there's something. Really you can see some progress, but some of the kids that we've fostered, we're seeing progress. We're seeing. When a couple of us came, they couldn't use a knife and talk and you think, wow, how did that happen?
Speaker 2:it's from a time you don't never say have the table.
Speaker 1:I've heard of a couple who fostered a couple of children who on the first day they went to give their tea and they sat at the table. I've heard of a couple who fostered a couple of children who on the first day they went to give them their tea and they sat under the table. Yes, and they went. That's the way we normally eat. Yeah, and you think what? Yeah, so for them to be able to be tall and slagging. This couple did a brilliant thing of basically putting a picnic rug out.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Lottery, and then moving them to the picnic rug from under the table and then Right chip them, yeah, for weeks and months. Yeah, and you learn so much about that kind of thing, yeah, that it's not so black and white. So from my point of view, you know, those little wings are absolutely gold dust, you know.
Speaker 2:I totally agree and I think that's what we have to help fostering families see, is that the little wings are just as important as the big wings, because sometimes the little wings are what we are going to get for the time being. There was an amazing woman called Vera Fowlerberg who wrote a book called Journey Through Care and it was a journey of a child's life through care. Okay, and I saw her speak many, many years ago and she used to say you have to think about the number of years that children have lived in a traumatic situation. So if they're four or five when they come to you, you double that in order to really see solid progress. Now, that is a bit scary. I don't want to put people off, but you'll get lots of little wins along the way, and sometimes children have to go through a lot of raging before they can and that's part of their healing. And I suppose we have to help hold our families while the children rage and that's really tough for people.
Speaker 1:That's another aspect, isn't? It is your own family? Yeah, and if you're going to go into foster care, you've got to have quite a solid family, yeah, but then you, you know, when we were assessed, the assessment goes on for about a year, folks, or a little bit less. It's not always just us, I mean like, but in fact, and and we, you know, they thoroughly check out whether you're prepared for this. So if you, if you go into wanting to go into foster care, I think that's a great idea, and you know there and you're not really suitable, they will let you know for lots of reasons.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you know, yes, for lots of reasons. Sometimes you know we have a massive duty of care to people who are blind to foster, and it's not just about our children. We obviously have an overriding duty of care too, and actually sometimes it might not be the right time for people, and it's not that they're not good parents or they're not an amazing family. There are lots of reasons why fostering might not be right for people, and I think the assessment process is about teasing that out.
Speaker 1:I would have been handsome in your brother's shoes 20 years ago.
Speaker 2:I was 43.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying you're 43.
Speaker 1:I've done my work. Definitely I've never had kids. I once had done a lot of psychiatry. I've been a carer and I was in the whole caring profession. I didn't understand children. But now, as we've grown up, we're kind of like. We've been through that process and having a family is difficult for everybody. Some people just sail through it, others there's a bit more conflict. Kids like chalk and cheese sometimes and everybody says, oh, there's so much light. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I'm asking. You know what I mean. But we're lucky, ours are British, we don't have to take it. It's just that, isn't it? I hear that a lot. Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:And when I, when Debs and I, first applied for this, we came to do training with you, you know they said, well, go do this course, it's two days long. I went two days, that's a long time, isn't it? It's just well, there's these talk about two days. Two weeks would have been, you know, not enough. No, you're not Just to discuss all of the bits and pieces. And since then you know'll say thank you, because we've had some brilliant training to help in all sorts of different areas. And I think that's what's great about an independent fostering agency is they will give you the support that you need, and I think there's 367 agencies around the country. Wow, I know I've been doing the own work.
Speaker 2:You're a guy yeah.
Speaker 1:And some are bigger and some smaller, but they all have that same Ofsted check?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, that's essential as part of your registration.
Speaker 1:So I mean, how far is your reach here? Because I know we've got Colchester and South End.
Speaker 2:I think you've seen Peterborough. Yeah, our furthest points are, yeah, a family near Peterborough and a little cluster of families down in South Essex.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Essex.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we've always. Because we positioned ourselves on the Essex-Suffolk border, our original sort of vision was Essex and Suffolk and then we sort of grew a little bit into Cambridge and grew a little bit up into North Suffolk and the Norfolk border and I suppose when families inquire with us we just look at how realistic is it for us to be able to support them at what distance? So our family outline in Peterbottom actually are related to one of our other families or agency. So usually we might have said that might be a little bit too far, but because there's a link and we find this that once one part of the family starts to post, and we've got a few, and there's other parts of the family and to foster, we've got a few and there's other parts of the family and that's lovely because they can provide really good support and it's natural for the kids. You know we provide a little break or a little holiday for the children and it's with another family member. That's what happens in the family piece.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, we've seen this because the person who looked after Archer for respite, so we could have a bit of a break her daughter also fosters her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and they work so well as a union. There's something called the Mockingbird model that was brought about some years ago and hasn't ever worked quite well, where the concept was that you trained up a small group of fostering families who could be very close with one another geographically and who could then, when they say, you know, it takes a village to raise a child, they could mirror that model in terms of a fostering centre and they could support each other with respite, care, short race for children, and they could go around each other's barbecues. You know, there's this idea that so that then when children did need a break or families needed a break, there'd be someone they'd get, and so I love that model. We've never quite been able to get to it, but we've come close.
Speaker 1:Also, you know, you have these days where all of your foster carers can come together and we found that to be really useful. I mean, we did it's a knockout at the Mersey and I made a complete fault of myself oh, it's a big one and Debbie, who is not a non-offensive person, did a knockout and she just had the best time and meeting other people. And that's something we've really recognised as really useful is listening to other carers and seeing what they go through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she normalises things, doesn't she? In a very kind of abnormal way.
Speaker 1:Which means you're in a bubble kind of bit. So that's really supportive.
Speaker 2:We've stayed true to that throughout since we set up BFS, because we just see that and again, you know children have met people, even if it's just impulsing a lot of activity day or at camp. It's not so scary if they don't have respite, because it's like oh yeah, I remember you, you're looking after so-and-so, and it's just more normal. You know it's. It's tough being in care for kids. It's really tough being in care for kids and whatever we can do to try and make it less tough, that's part of our job it's nice.
Speaker 1:What's great about those days also is for, you know, the kids know that there's other kids out there, absolutely, that are fostering.
Speaker 2:Absolutely the conversations that naturally take place and it's like, oh, okay, so this is all just like, this is okay, it's normal and it's so lovely. And when we have our camp, which I think, oh, were we in our fifth year this year? Oh, it's just such an amazing experience because the kids often haven't known each other and they'll come together and, of all ages, they just they get it, they gel and they you can see them having little conversations, supporting each other. We have one really quite troubled teenager there this year who, on our team building assault course, was helping a six-year-old and I saw them doing fist bumps with each other and that is. You know, this is a kid who was swearing when he first got there, was really just didn't want to be part of it, and suddenly we're seeing another side to it. So I love that. I just think, as adults supporting our families and our children, oh, we need to see those things because it's like, actually, we are making an impact and we are making a difference and it is all worthwhile, you know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, those days are just an essential part of what we offer.
Speaker 1:Okay, Well, I think that's good and random. Otherwise we could be random for everything. We could start doing stories about samples and going back and forth. But listen, thank you very much for explaining EFS, Eastern Fostering Services, which is in the case you meet today, and hopefully we'll be able to do another interview again in a few months about other specific subjects. Yeah, there's a whole area about food and eating Absolutely which I'd like to explore. In fact, there was on the BBC Good Food, no, the Food Programme, just recently they did a little documentary about foster carers and how children have very, very complex needs, sometimes not all the time, sometimes with their food, and how to address that, how to not have confrontation at the table. And you know, because you've been, you've spent quite so much time saying well, you must eat the greens, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, completely, you play, you play all that stuff. But it's a huge subject that you have families on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the place where they should be caring and loved, because that's probably the place which mostly hasn't been. Yes, anyway. So thank you very much, ellen. Thank you, okay, thank you, thank you.
