Everything End of Life.
This podcast is dedicated to talking to experts and others about all aspects of death and dying. You know, that thing we don't really want to talk about!
As a hospice carer and former psychiatric nurse as well as writer and former Theatre director, I invite guests to talk about their roles in and what to expect in the last four weeks of life. What happens to the person dying, what help is there, what to do before and after the event.
Many of the families we go in to see have one thing in common and that is that they don't know what to expect. I thought that a Podcast may help and then discovered so much to explore that is of interest to people such as alternative funerals, what do Hospices actually do, what role do religions play?
So join me for the first interview as we begin this Podcast with Clinical Nurse Specialist Becky Rix where we grasp the nettle and discuss what happens to us generally in those last four weeks.
Time to explore "Everything End of Life".
Everything End of Life.
When Strangers Become Family: How Compassionate Communities Transform Lives
From isolation to belonging, this heartfelt conversation with Jill Wilkinson reveals the transformative power of compassionate communities. After relocating to Colchester nine years ago, Jill found herself trapped in a cycle of anxiety and loneliness until a chance encounter with local mental health advocate Shawn Leek's walking group changed everything.
With raw honesty, Jill shares her personal journey of finding connection through Colchester's growing compassionate communities movement. As a "Compassionate Connector" at St Helena's Books and Brew café, she now helps others bridge the gaps that once left her feeling like an outsider. The warmth in her voice is palpable when she describes the joy of unexpectedly running into friends while shopping: "I go out and I get a hug. Gosh, shopping at Tesco, I get a hug!"
This episode delves into the practical initiatives making Colchester a recognized "Compassionate City," including workshops that teach people how to have difficult conversations around grief and loss. Jill reflects on how our societal discomfort with death and dying has created unnecessary isolation, noting how some people "cross the street" to avoid those who are grieving simply because they don't know what to say.
Most powerfully, Jill articulates the philosophy driving her involvement: "I want a compassionate, kind world and I'm sorry it's not yet happening and we have to do it from the ground up." Her belief that "everybody's your brother and sister" regardless of "this outer suit" offers a profound perspective on human connection that transcends our increasingly divided society.
Whether you're feeling isolated yourself or looking to create more meaningful connections in your community, this conversation will inspire you to take that first step toward building a more compassionate world. What small action could you take today to strengthen the web of compassion in your own community?
For those interested in what Palliative care looks like at home there is "The Last Kiss" (Not a Romance)
Available on Amazon now
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Kiss-Romance-Carers-Stories/dp/1919635289/ref=sr_1_1?crid=13D6YWONKR5YH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9._59mNNFoc-rROuWZnAQfsG0l3iseuQuK_gx-VxO_fe6DLJR8M0Az039lJk_HxFcW2o2HMhIH3r3PuD7Dj-D6KTwIHDMl2Q51FGLK8UFYOBwbRmrLMbpYoqOL6I5ruLukF1vq7umXueIASDS2pO91JktkZriJDJzgLfPv1ft5UtkdQxs9isRDmzAYzc5MKKztINcNGBq-GRWKxgvc_OV5iKKvpw0I5d7ZQMWuvGZODlY.fqQgWV-yBiNB5186RxkkWvQYBoEsDbyq-Hai3rU1cwg&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+last+kiss+not+a+romance&qid=1713902566&s=books&sprefix=The+Last+kiss+n%2Cstripbooks%2C107&sr=1-1
Hello and welcome to Everything. End of Life with me, jason Cottrell and guests, and my guest today is Jill Wilkinson. Is that correct? Yes, because some people tell me when I say their surname that's not quite how I pronounce it. I've had Bowditch and I didn't know it was Bowditch. Bowditch, mine's quite easy, quite a normal Wilkinson. I think my account of Sir Wilkinson funnily enough. So yeah, so you live here in Colchester now and you've had some involvement with the hospice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the people there in the compassionate communities. What would we call it? It's not shindig, it's a movement. Really, it's becoming a movement isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it certainly is in Colchester, isn't it? We've got this.
Speaker 1:Colchester compassionate city status I think, haven't we yeah.
Speaker 2:Largely for the hospice that has been, with greg uh cooper and and sean leek, the mental health runner, and yourself getting involved yeah, and quite a few people now getting involved in this whole movement yeah, there's, there's, there's loads now because, um, we have a once a month I think it's the first friday of the month we go to different venues, which is a great idea, because I haven't always lived in Colchester, so I'm getting to know the community and what's on offer as well. But we have more and more. The last one was, I think, at Best Level Cafe, and they do stuff in the community. I didn't know about that, so I was finding out.
Speaker 1:I think it's one of those things, isn't it, where a group like this it's not just about discussing compassion, showing compassion and being a model for that, but also that discovering what else is going on out there in the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's networking and finding out what other people do, because not everything's advertised, we don't know, especially like the smaller, the start-ups, like Sean Leak and the mental health one. He's got his own CIC there, but it's not necessarily it's running. But it's a way of interacting.
Speaker 1:What's a CIC? It's a charity, isn't it Charity? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Charity and culture. Let's call it that CIC. That'll do.
Speaker 1:So he started off just with three or four people and now he's got. He does walking groups and running groups and lots of involvement.
Speaker 2:But this is why the compassionate community, because we're all interacting, we can share those, and the best thing is always word of mouth, isn't it? Definitely Do you want me to talk about? I do Compassionate Connector as well. Yeah, tell me about that, which is at the moment. On Fridays, I go to St Helena's Books and Brew in Stainway.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And we just talk to the public in the cafe there and I usually ask them we find out what they do.
Speaker 1:Is that a community centre? Books and Brew. Books and Brew.
Speaker 2:There's other shops around there. I'm not sure, but it's St Helena's. It's got a furniture shop and other bits and bolts. That's across the road.
Speaker 1:The co-op, the big old co-op. Yeah, there's other shops around there. If you can't go down that way, you get to the Sainsbury's and all that.
Speaker 2:Unless I've got my sat-nav on me, I don't know where anything is. So that's been quite revealing because we can share with chats. There's people that go in there regularly because it's very friendly the volunteer staff and the staff in St Heaven that's very friendly, so they have a lot of regulars and a lot of people are sort of quite lonely and they go in there for a sort of social and it's quite reasonably priced as well. So books and bro lonely and they go in there for a sort of social and it's quite reasonably priced as well, so books and brew, and that's in stanway yeah when?
Speaker 1:when is that again just so?
Speaker 2:generally it's um most fridays, not the first friday of the month, because that's when we do the ambassador meetings all round and anybody can come to that, can they the books and brew thing?
Speaker 1:anybody can come to that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just, there's the coffee shop and we just chat to people and about all different things. But you know, end of life, it's not something you start off with, it's about. It's about building those relationships and finding out you know things that they might be doing and and I tend to make a sort of notes of any groups that if I speak to somebody, did you know, like somebody told me about the men's shed. Okay, I've got to look it up. It's for men's because yeah, that there isn't always so much for men.
Speaker 2:So somebody, somebody told me about that. So if I get checked somebody, people just tell me things, yeah, and that is true, the men's shit.
Speaker 1:I think that's interesting because, as Sean points out, as many people point out, men are just really not very good at sharing their feelings and getting involved in that way. But I think there is a bit of a change where that's happening more of an awareness, yeah uh, these days than there was, say, 20 years ago.
Speaker 2:Well it's that old english to keep quiet, stiff upper lip. I think that's changed. Or, men don't cry, but I think it's changing because we all put on masks, we're taught to put on masks, but I think that's breaking down that, which is great. It's about becoming your authentic self yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:So okay, tell me a bit about you, jill so when did you, when your journey start? Because you don't just suddenly end up in a cafe talking to people about end of life care. So you know where were you born.
Speaker 2:I was born in scunthorpe, scunthorpe, scunthorpe yeah, I haven't got the accent anymore. Yeah, that's, it was a steel town, but they're trying to close down the steel works, aren't they which?
Speaker 1:isn't a good thing that'll kill the town.
Speaker 2:So, basically, I was brought up to London when I think I was, I had my 8th birthday, oh right, and we moved to Kent. So we moved to Kent. I've moved around quite a lot to different areas in my time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know what that's like we used to often say our parents used to move around a great deal when we were kids, but we'd always find them Trying to get away from them. Yeah, absolutely so. Yeah, we moved around a lot as kids. And I think it's interesting because if you, if you move around a lot as a child, I think A it can be very unsettling.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But also it gives you good social skills, because you lose friends, but then you've got to make new friends, yeah, and so you can either become a complete introvert or quite an extrovert.
Speaker 2:It's not always easy, because we moved up to London and I had quite a northern accent there. I remember going to me and my brother went to the fish and chip shop at the sweet shop. They didn't understand what we were talking about. We were asking for a K-Lite. They looked at us. Oh, they don't understand what we're saying. Are we sure, Bert? Yeah, yeah, what we're saying? Are we sure? Yeah, yeah, we went in the fish and shop, the fish and chip shop and the way we order. They didn't understand what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:So how did you order Gosh?
Speaker 2:you're talking about like 50 minutes ago, I can't remember now, but you don't mention fish and chips.
Speaker 1:It's like people not knowing what a bone cake is.
Speaker 2:What is a barn?
Speaker 1:cake. Do you know what? I'm not sure anymore. I used to think it was like a thick pancake thing, but I don't think it is. I think it might be more of a scone tart. We'll have to put some comments in what a barn cake is for people. That will tell me what it is. Okay, so you've moved down to London. Who are you in London, or Kate?
Speaker 2:Mostly, but too in focus. My parents separated, we went back to Mum and us went back up north. You know we were very unsettled so came back again. But after we went back up north people thought we were snobs because we had the funny accent.
Speaker 1:You can't wink, can you I?
Speaker 2:couldn't wink. Yeah, so I have moved quite a bit in my life and I left, sort of came back and I left home when I was 17 and moved to Parsons Green, which was probably a really posh place now. It was quite a run-down area on the outskirts of London. It's on the Tube Line.
Speaker 1:Yeah, lots of places in London, yeah, london has expanded, hasn't it yeah? That's right. Remember there was a during the 18s and 90s when we had yuppies. Then the whole place was changed beyond recognition. Some of the poorer areas, where the working class people would traditionally be, suddenly started having high rises and um. And then later on london changed again. We had gentrification, which people becoming very gentrified and uh. So yeah, it's interesting to watch how places change yeah, I wish I bought property.
Speaker 2:I wish I could have afforded to bought property. Yeah, because I would have probably been there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember the first house I bought I was a staff nurse and I just said I'd like a mortgage please and they went, yeah, okay, and I went fine, that's it. I didn't have much money after the mortgage money went out. But you know you can still do that. Can't do that now, just go.
Speaker 2:So then, what was your career path like? Well, I became a secretary. So I ended up working in quite a lot of financial places till the last job. So I got promoted, which is very rare for a secretary, because you get typecast and they yeah, yeah, um. But six months after I got promoted, my boss left and I was doing something quite specific. We were doing tax risk, which I loved. I really enjoyed that, and I got promoted. But he decided to retire and because it was an American-based firm, there was only me and my boss that were doing that in the UK. They didn't make any sense, so I was made redundant. That was a shame. Oh gosh, it's an opportunity to. I'd had enough of work until 11 o'clock at night.
Speaker 1:Is that what you were doing, was it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes because of the time zone with America as well, Right, I think for some reason it wasn't a lockdown then, but there was a reason why I was working from home, because there was some, I don't know there was a period when travel was difficult.
Speaker 2:I can't even remember now why. So I used to have, I used to sort of ping well, it's easier doing now because I'm so busy, yeah, you end up sort of working late. I remember I kept Googling how to get out of the rat race frequently googling how to get out the rat race, yeah, frequently. And uh, when I got made redundant, I just I did get another job, but something in my heart was going no, I just can't do this anymore. Yeah, I don't want to live this life anymore it's filled its purpose yeah so and then so you moved on so so I ended up.
Speaker 2:This is how I ended up in Colchester, because I knew somebody in the area, right, I thought you know at least yeah.
Speaker 1:New beginning.
Speaker 2:New beginning. But I didn't think about anything there because I was quite stressed at the time, right, and it was pretty tight, buying something and kept falling through. You know, when you buy them it's an absolute nightmare and I wasn't working. But it happened eventually and I ended up in Colchester. But I really did miss my friends. I didn't realise how important my friends were. They were like my strength, like the Samson in his hair. My friends were my strength.
Speaker 1:But now here you are. You came to Colchester, and how long ago was that?
Speaker 2:I think it's actually about nine years. Nine years, it's quite a long time. But I did do some temp work, but I started to get bad anxiety. I think the stress have been made redundant. The stress of moving it's cumulative, isn't it? No? And and I did some work, but I had, you know, I didn't have a lot of close friends around and that kind of took me over a bit.
Speaker 1:So this is where you started to look around for other things.
Speaker 2:After a while I thought I've got to sort of get involved. So what happened was I kept seeing for some reason maybe I'd Googled walking groups or something but Sean the mental health friend they kept coming onto my facebook page he does that. Yeah, I don't know how, I don't know what happened was I was listening to his story. Yeah, because my anxiety was I could easily get triggered and I had a lot of negative beliefs manifest.
Speaker 1:I'll just stop you. So if you want Sean's story, we did an interview with him, so I just had to scroll down through the stories and you can hear the interview with him, and it's fascinating. Well worth a listen, yeah.
Speaker 2:So listening to that was great because it gave me oh, at least he would know where I was coming from. It took a few months just listening to him and and then I sort of text him saying where, where we're meeting, and no, sorry yeah, yeah and uh, that that was great because, um, I sort of isolated myself because I'm the sort of person that hides away and um, he came, he asked gives you permission? And he gave me the biggest hug ever and that was just like, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a big fella too, yes, and that was nice, because I'm a very tactile person, I've given hugs, so sort of having that just made me feel a bit more secure.
Speaker 2:And then he's very good because he talks especially new people, and he chatted to me about what my interests were. I ended up working at 360 because I'd just done a nutrition course, so I was helping out at 360 for the weight loss yeah, giving guidance or anything but I was sitting down and making tea and chatting to people while they sort of waited to be seen.
Speaker 1:And that gave you a sense of purpose. Oh, gosh.
Speaker 2:No, that was really good because it was that communication, that community, and I got to know the regulars.
Speaker 1:So, in fact, nine years ago, you came to Colchester and spent a lot of time on your own, by the sounds of things, yeah, yeah. But then this breaks you out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I couldn't work very much, because work was triggering my anxiety because, it was doing what I used to do as well and it wasn't the same anymore and I just struggled to do it. I did it for a while but I managed to find work. I think that's it. One of the walks was at um in St or around St Helena's, once a month. We used to do no, it was a month every three months they used to do the queers and the real big social things, and I was thinking of working and volunteering for Books and Brew. Yeah, and I was speaking to Greg about the form. I needed some help on the form.
Speaker 2:And he said oh, have you ever thought working for me?
Speaker 1:Greg, what are you like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's how I sort of got to meet.
Speaker 1:Greg.
Speaker 2:I started working. He's another force, isn't he?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a great force of positivity, oh gosh, and as I say you know, I think it's a verb. Now that you've been coopered, you've been brought into the fold of the confessional community and that's just amazing.
Speaker 2:So that's how I got involved and I started. I've done lots of different things with them. Really, I was doing some admin as well, right, helping out at workshops.
Speaker 1:Tell me about workshops. What kind of workshops were you doing? Have I put you on the spot?
Speaker 2:The Compassionate conversation, okay, which is, you know, breaking that barrier down of how to speak to people that have been bereaved, right, okay?
Speaker 1:So it's a bit of sort of not grief counselling but grief speaking, if you like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because a lot of people they don't know what to say to people. No, so it just….
Speaker 1:It climbs up, you know, you feel better later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and some people say that people have seen somebody in the road and they've crossed over so as not to speak to them because they don't know what to say.
Speaker 1:They don't know what to say.
Speaker 2:That's a good workshop.
Speaker 1:It's almost social skills training, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, in one way.
Speaker 2:Well, I suppose you don't people think, oh, I don't want to upset somebody, but we are so rubbish in this country.
Speaker 1:We're talking about death and dying.
Speaker 2:I know and.
Speaker 1:I think it's partly because we have these. For a long time we've had the nuclear family.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so of course you know if you have a big, long, extended family. I was talking to a taxi driver, uh, a while ago, and uh, I think it was from somewhere like uganda, and I said you know, I think you know I'm not gonna be funny or anything, but in the hospice we don't ever see any black people, or very rarely, or we don't see chinese people or you know, uh, and or indian people. And he said, well, that's because we've got huge families yeah and we all kind of look after each other.
Speaker 1:my, my, my mother has like nine children or something like, and uh, and then we've all got cousins and we all keep in contact with each other. So if my mother gets ill you can't get through on the phone to find out because everybody's phoning so and they see death much more frequently because of the extended family and therefore for them it's a natural thing to talk about that, whereas we in our little bubbles, you know you might get to your 50s or 60s before you know somebody who's died.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and community has broken down, families have broken down, and that's why I love getting involved with compassionate community, because to me, everybody's your brother and sister.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I've seen that on your Facebook page actually and I like that. You know, that was really. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, after research, you know, yeah, oh, dear. Oh yeah, I know everything now.
Speaker 2:Well, everybody, we're all, you know. It doesn't matter this outer suit, it doesn't matter, we're all brothers and sisters.
Speaker 1:Well, it is interesting to think that we're all hurtling around on this one rocket space in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:With nothing else around us, and yet we're having a squabble with each other.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:That's ridiculous, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I know it's about. I think it's about being aware and recognising it. Yeah, because it feels sometimes that fear's promoted, division's promoted, and that's how it seems to me, and I don't even know the TV anymore because I don't want to.
Speaker 1:You don't want that negative vibe.
Speaker 2:I don't want that negative vibe. Yeah, I'm all about capturing what comes in.
Speaker 1:What comes in? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And your own thoughts is capturing.
Speaker 1:I've got to say I don't sit down to watch TV. We'll eat after the kids have gone to bed. We'll eat around about half past eight, nine o'clock and then watch half an hour of TV and go to bed. But it's just. You know, we don't watch the news or anything like that, because it's too depressing. And you get it. I get it from Radio 4. I get it from other sources. Just walking past, you walk past a newspaper stand, you read the headlines and this, so you kind of get the news, but it's all somebody else's opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I was going to say as well. It's just perception, it's people's perception, and I don't want the negative perception. Yeah, oh, that's fine. Yeah, so I'm trying to stay positive in the crazy world yeah, crazy world.
Speaker 1:So what do you? What's the next thing for you with compassionate communities? What did they? Do you get an award?
Speaker 2:by the way, or is that coming? Yeah, you got the award.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you have to go to the mayor.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was lovely. Okay, tell me about that, yeah, I got selected, if that's the word, and we go to the town hall. Yeah, so it's a really nice event. Yeah, it's very emotional because you hear, I think there's usually about 10, up to 10, 13 people. Yeah, sometimes it's individuals, projects or companies and we have a little bit of time to sort of say why people have selected people, why they've nominated.
Speaker 2:That's the word I was searching for why people have been nominated and then you get a nice award from. It's a bit like a little ceremony why people have been nominated and then you're getting a nice award from. It's a bit like a little ceremony really it's a bit of a recognition. And I sat in the mayor's chair so that was really nice, but it's lovely to hear from different people what they're doing in the community.
Speaker 1:It makes you feel more of a part of it. Yeah, so I mean, that's's amazing and you can nominate anybody, uh, for compassionate communities. Just go to the st helen website. Keep searching around compassionate communities. You'll find nomination form there, I'm sure, yeah, or contact details. There's a link, isn't there? Yeah, and I think it is nice to get some recognition.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, as we were saying, we were talking about it in the kitchen when you were making coffee, which is very nice actually, it's very nice, it's strong, well done, yeah, good cup of coffee. We were talking about blowing your own trumpet and how you know, we're really not very good in this country about blowing our own trumpet, about saying I did a good thing. I've got to say I'm an unashamed altruist. I love to put a smile on somebody else's face because it makes me smile, you know. And so I think, yeah, blow your own trumpet and, as I say, get brass band out the back there and make sure everybody knows you're doing a nice thing.
Speaker 2:So you over there, you can do a nice thing as well, and you can do a nice thing as well, and you can do a nice thing for somebody else and you know, it's not a problem to actually say I did a nice thing well, it's lovely that, um, people can be recognized as well for what they're doing, because, if it's like the smaller charities or the startups or, yeah, the more obscure ones that that people don't know about, and a lot of people, like Sean, for instance, they're using their own life and their experiences to help others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he didn't know it. He was just one man on his own thinking. I'll just see if anybody else out there thinks like I'm thinking.
Speaker 2:And then it built up from two or three people to, I think, 30 or 40 people. He has lots of meets now, so many people, and it's helping a huge amount of people. Yeah, and I think it's really important as I was mentioning when we were making the coffee, it's I think it's it's from the ground up if we want to change the world, and that's my feeling. I want a compassionate, kind world and I'm sorry it's not yet happening and we have to do it from the ground up. It's the only way.
Speaker 1:I think it's like we have to transform our own hearts our politicians and leaders are not really doing that, but then they're kind of obsessed with running the country and balancing books and law and yeah, if you get into a heart.
Speaker 2:You can do it from a different perspective. I think we have to, and it's not easy, but I think we're in a world that that has really transformed into self-interest greed.
Speaker 1:There's a lot more element of that.
Speaker 2:That's why I like getting involved with compassionate community. I mean, I'll be honest, when I first came to Colchester I didn't like it because I isolated myself and I was very negative. Once you get anxiety and that's, I think, whatever you think you attract that energy to you. So, yeah, this is why I'm so excited by this in colchester, that you've got compassionate city status and there's all these things that I'm finding about. You know, going to the ambassador meetings and all they are. It's anybody who turns up as an ambassador. You don't necessarily have to do anything we get a badge, but it's a great thing. It's a great social event. I met somebody and I'm going to be going for a coffee with them.
Speaker 2:You know it's yeah, and it's expanding, helping the community expanding your world, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's a great thing to be involved in because it's transforming the world and I think that any, I think we're I actually believe we're electromagnetic beings. Like we give out that energy. You know when you're, when somebody's in a bad mood, you can feel it. You don't need to same. If somebody's happy, that energy goes out into the field and you can feel it. So if we get into the heart I don't know if you've ever there's something called the hawking scale right, uh, yeah, have you heard about that?
Speaker 1:well, I actually saw it on your facebook page so yeah, yeah it's like down here, bad negatives you know where you're not happy and way up here, where the vibrations are quite high, yeah, it's where you're kind of a lot happier. Is that the kind of well?
Speaker 2:it's, it's the vibration, everything's vibration and energy, and basically fear is about 100 megahertz or something, and then, as you come up, love is 528 right, okay and um. As you go up higher, you feel more positive and energetic and if we feel, flood the world with that rather than the fear boost. Yeah, yeah, it will change.
Speaker 1:That's not an uncommon theory, was it? We've got a lot of you know from, or a lot of religions believe in the vibrations around. So yeah, I mean I don't always believe in what people believe in, but I believe in the power of belief yeah itself.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's yeah which is a really powerful thing.
Speaker 1:So this is you. You're going to be continuing to do get involved with the compassionate communities and promoting that yeah greg must have been, must have been delighted when you turned up another victim. Sorry, yeah, he's building he's building his empire.
Speaker 2:He's compassionate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he does.
Speaker 2:For people coming along, because I think people are searching for, I think people are realising now how much we all need each other, yeah, and which I always think when it's yin and yang, isn't it? If negativity is growing, so is the opposite the positive, and I had this quote when I pract buddhism that um a plane cannot leave the ground without the negative forces, and that so yeah, it's a good way it's a positive way of having the negative, because it can't take off unless it gets resistance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you just have to put the pedal down even harder yeah, so it's, it's the negative. You know it's not sitting back, giving up and thinking can't move forward, it's just having that determination that push forward through the negativity. I think that's interesting.
Speaker 1:I think. Actually, you know, the whole community thing is good because we do have a lot of people in Colchester and probably around the world but who sit in their small bubble. I remember going to North somewhere, I can't remember, but we went into a cafe and there were about three old guys in there that had come in and they were sitting in separate tables and, um, they just order one slice of toast and and I went and sat with one. I said you know, because I'm garros, you know, I'm just going to chat with anybody. I said you know it's nice around here do you live around here?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I've been here for years, so you can be here often. And he said, and he laughed smart, went yeah, this is I, I come here often. And he laughed and went yeah, this is I. Come here because I haven't got anybody else, so I come here and the waitresses here are great and I know them all by name. And I was like, oh my God, it's not sad, but it was how beautiful that was in fact, because he'd got a place to go. But this kind of community, like the books and brew, that's something where actually getting him to chat with the other two blokes yeah would have probably been a great thing.
Speaker 1:Let's start something. Building could have been ended up as a bit the last of the summer wine moment, but yeah, you don't know. So I thought so. I think this is a good movement.
Speaker 2:It's getting people to talk to each other yeah, it's very nice because, um, because now, because I've done a lot of the walks, I know a lot of the people from there and chatting to people at Books and Brew, and I also joined a church recently who do a lot of a lot of the churches do a lot of community work as well. But when I go out now, even though I might be on my own going out, I'm always bumping into people, which is lovely, that is great, because that makes you I feel finally after all these years that, yeah, I belong now.
Speaker 1:You've got a place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got a place. Oh, that's beautiful. And you know you go out and I get a hug. Gosh shopping at Tesco, I get a hug.
Speaker 1:Come on, come on.
Speaker 2:It's really nice, even having that you go to town and you meet people you know. Yeah, so from small, beginnings here you are now.
Speaker 1:I mean come to Colchester hating the world. That's really terrible. A lot of anxiety, I think. And here you are now. You know getting involved with the whole community thing and spreading out. It's more than what. You're going to have to be careful, because you can get sucked into so many voluntary things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my life has gotten really busy now, which is great. I think you get more motivated. But I've always been the type of person that you know, if life is never a straight line, you know you crash up, and I've always got off my knees and got up again. I actually didn't think it was going to happen this time because it took a longer period, but now I can see value now in actually being in Colchester. I find that I'm quite fortunate to be in a place with so much going on in the community.
Speaker 1:And there is a lot going on in Colchester. Well, listen, Jill, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you finding out all about you. And, yeah, I will try to get along to one of the ambassador meetings myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be great.
Speaker 1:But with you know business fostering and you know all these other things, it's quite threatening. Yeah, busy, busy life, and I'm an obsessive cook as well, so we get. Yeah, so we get down. I was just saying in the last interview, the garlic flowers are about to come out and, um, it's, one of my favorite things each year is to do is to go down to one of the woods and pick all the wild garlic flowers and pickle them. And you can pick all the wild flowers and sweet pickle and then when you do something like a beetroot gel, just put these little white flowers and they burst with flavor the moment you eat them.
Speaker 2:I need to know more about that. I did a go on a wild foraging once in Kent. Yeah, and because I left there and I made a note where everything was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that was a wonderful day. There's a you know, waking start Foraging's great. Yeah, I'd love to get into that. This is something I'm sure Sean will be moving into more sooner or later.
Speaker 2:That would be fantastic. I'm all for natural foods as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too, me too, yeah, okay, all right, thank you very much, thank you.
Speaker 1:I'm going to stop the interview there and then I'm going to move to the camera Hello, the camera, and turn that off. Oh, there we go.
