Everything End of Life.
This podcast is dedicated to talking to experts and others about all aspects of death and dying. You know, that thing we don't really want to talk about!
As a hospice carer and former psychiatric nurse as well as writer and former Theatre director, I invite guests to talk about their roles in and what to expect in the last four weeks of life. What happens to the person dying, what help is there, what to do before and after the event.
Many of the families we go in to see have one thing in common and that is that they don't know what to expect. I thought that a Podcast may help and then discovered so much to explore that is of interest to people such as alternative funerals, what do Hospices actually do, what role do religions play?
So join me for the first interview as we begin this Podcast with Clinical Nurse Specialist Becky Rix where we grasp the nettle and discuss what happens to us generally in those last four weeks.
Time to explore "Everything End of Life".
Everything End of Life.
Shawn Leek: Running Through Struggles, Redefining Mental Health, and Building Empathetic Communities
What happens when a professional golfer trades in his clubs for a pair of running shoes? Meet Shawn Leek, the Mental Health Runner, who found his freedom on the open road. Sean's story is one of transformation, fuelled by personal battles with self-esteem and a relentless quest for fulfilment. Through candid storytelling, Shawn shares how running became his sanctuary, leading to an astonishing 27 marathons, including the extraordinary feat of 7 marathons in 7 days for charity. His journey highlights the redemptive power of physical activity and the unwavering support from those we hold dear.
Grief and mental health are daunting subjects, particularly for men, but Shawn bravely tackles these issues head-on. Reflecting on his experiences between 2016 and 2017, Shawn reveals how embracing vulnerability can be a lifeline out of despair. Through his personal accounts of loss and recovery, he sheds light on the stereotypes surrounding mental health and the vital role of community and connection in healing. This episode encourages listeners to break the silence, seek support, and find solace in shared stories and open conversations.
The episode wraps with a celebration of community and the profound impact of empathy. Shawn's transition from engineering to fostering mental health support groups, spurred by job loss during the pandemic, illustrates the power of small, manageable life changes. Through the Mental Health Runner page, Shawn has built a thriving community dedicated to shared experiences and mutual support. Tune in to discover how storytelling and altruism can lead to personal growth, fulfilment, and the creation of communities where everyone feels empowered to share their journey.
For those interested in what Palliative care looks like at home there is "The Last Kiss" (Not a Romance)
Available on Amazon now
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Kiss-Romance-Carers-Stories/dp/1919635289/ref=sr_1_1?crid=13D6YWONKR5YH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9._59mNNFoc-rROuWZnAQfsG0l3iseuQuK_gx-VxO_fe6DLJR8M0Az039lJk_HxFcW2o2HMhIH3r3PuD7Dj-D6KTwIHDMl2Q51FGLK8UFYOBwbRmrLMbpYoqOL6I5ruLukF1vq7umXueIASDS2pO91JktkZriJDJzgLfPv1ft5UtkdQxs9isRDmzAYzc5MKKztINcNGBq-GRWKxgvc_OV5iKKvpw0I5d7ZQMWuvGZODlY.fqQgWV-yBiNB5186RxkkWvQYBoEsDbyq-Hai3rU1cwg&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+last+kiss+not+a+romance&qid=1713902566&s=books&sprefix=The+Last+kiss+n%2Cstripbooks%2C107&sr=1-1
Hi, that's fine.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to everything. End of life with me, jason Costrell and guests, and this morning I have the somewhat effervescent Sean Leak with me, otherwise known as the mental health runner. Good morning, sean.
Speaker 1:Good morning Jason.
Speaker 2:Okay, we're up and running. So we are having a bit of an internet issue. I don't know why that is. It's just one of those things If something's sent to annoy you, it will do, and we've chatted about that a little bit. But I wonder if you could just tell the audience a little bit about yourself the beginning of that journey and how that developed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just give a little bit of insight to me. You know I'm Sean Leake, I'm 50 years old now and my journey has been quite one to tell, I suppose. For people to really try and tell it is what I do. One to tell, I suppose for people to really try and tell is what I do. I started off as a golf professional in my first career. Um, basically for about 14 years played professional golf and then became a professional coach, lived a fantastic life. Um did some fantastic things, but what on the outside a lot of people didn't realize I was actually struggling a little bit with it because never feeling probably good enough and almost feeling that. Um, sometimes when I would go to tournaments it was almost like feeling like I let people down and things like that and that and that was sort of something I suppose. Now I recognize um at the time, which probably many people do. They don't realize that they're struggling at the time, they just take it as the norm.
Speaker 2:Um, so was this was this a general self-esteem thing? Or was it like imposter syndrome, you know where? You just think I'm just, I shouldn't be here, I'm not good enough for this, or yeah, there was many.
Speaker 1:There was many things. I mean that came a little bit from school as well. I always felt a little bit like that. Um, you know, I always struggled a bit at school with that sort of stuff. So a lot of that was a little bit to do with low self-esteem, never feeling probably good enough. And you know, I think the sport sort of helped me build that in some ways. But as it went on it became a little bit harder from the point of view of I've got everyone asking me questions only from a nice point of view. But I always felt that coming back from a tournament and saying I've not done as well as I want to was almost letting people down. But that actually wasn't the case. That's just part of life. Do you know what I mean? That that's part of playing sport.
Speaker 1:But then I got into coaching. Then I met my wife. So when I met my wife she gave me the confidence really, I suppose, to leave what I was doing. I wasn't really happy with what I was doing from the point of view of I didn't want to work every weekend of my life and many people will know, if you're coaching. You have to work at the time when everyone has their leisure time. So I was working every Saturday and Sunday of my life and I felt like I suppose I was missing out.
Speaker 1:So I'd always done engineering because my dad ran a business, so it was almost like natural thing was to just go into engineering. So I went into that, um, pipe fitter, welder by trade, um, that type of stuff, so a bit of a fitter as well, that type of bits. So did that and, to be honest, practical thing wasn't really. Yeah, practical thing, but not really. When I look back, wasn't really me. Um, you know, I did it, but it was a job that it didn't fulfill my needs, if that makes sense. So I'm a very sociable person, I'm a very interactive person, but I'm actually what you'll find out in a minute is I'm a very helpful person. I like helping people. That's what makes me who I am.
Speaker 1:Um, and again, at the time I didn't realize that, so the job was not really fulfilling my needs. I never again felt good enough to do the job again, being the time I didn't realize that, so the job was not really fulfilling my needs. I never again felt good enough to do the job. Again being the boss's son was very, very difficult as well. So there was lots of things going on involved in that and in around I think during that journey in around 2004, I started running, so obviously this is hence where the name the mental health runner comes from. So in 2004, on a drunk evening, I decided with a friend to run the london marathon. So we entered the london marathon. We unusually we got in. So we got into doing this. I've never run run before in my life. Um, back in 2004 we did the 2005 london.
Speaker 1:Now to be honest it's an experience that I can honestly say. When I'd done it the first time, I was like never again. I finished over the finish line, me and my friend John. We said no, never again. But about three or four weeks later I decided I thought, being the sports person, I've got unfinished business here because I didn't feel I'd done good enough. Coming back to the same principle, but it was almost like a carrot to me because it gave me that thing to think that actually, what can I do with this? So I entered the next year. He didn't. He never ran it again, but I ended up running 27 marathons after that. So I've done obviously many all over the country.
Speaker 2:It's an addiction, isn't?
Speaker 1:it, which is pretty amazing.
Speaker 2:An addiction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because again it comes back to that same principle Of trying to prove people wrong and trying to, I suppose, build my self esteem and all of those bits and pieces. As the story went, in 2015 I ran 7 marathons in 7 days for the hospice and you know I raised eleven and a half thousand pounds doing that and I was on BBC TV. You know my seven marathons I ran all around the country. So I ran all around the local of East Anglia. I ran one in Suffolk, one in Essex, one in Norfolk, one in Bedfordshire, one in Hertfordshire and then ended up with London Marathon with the last one and it was an incredible experience. But the real sad bit about the whole story is what everyone saw and what I was doing was actually a real cover up for how I was really feeling, because in 2016 I ended up trying to take my own life in the December. So it went from like the, when my life sort of probably fell apart. Yeah, yeah, and it's very much what people see on the outside and what is reality is often quite, very different and people would often look at me and go, oh, it's amazing what you're doing and all of these other bits and pieces, but a lot of that was me trying to cope. And again, we all do stuff like that at times and again, as a guy, I really didn't know how to speak and say that I was actually struggling. I kept trying to if you look at the story I kept trying to push the boundaries. I kept trying to push it further and further and it was almost like A I was exhausted, but B I just couldn't keep going like that because something was going to have to give and it was almost like I suppose I got. I mean, the massive part of the story is probably with the running.
Speaker 1:I'd done an ultra race the year before called the Saltmarsh 75, which is a 75-mile race over two days. So you run 39. It's actually longer than that, but you run 39 miles day one and then 38 day two. I'd completed it the first year and then the next year. I ran the first day.
Speaker 1:My mate couldn't manage to finish the first day, so I ended up finishing on my own, which was quite hard. And then the next day my wife and my kids were driving me down to the start for the second day, totally out of the blue, not something I could control. The car broke down on the way down. So we had to wait. We were just off the side of the A12, so I couldn't leave my, my family there and the a8 guy said we can't leave you there.
Speaker 1:So I ended up missing the start of the second day and I never got to do it and it was almost like that was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was almost like it felt like I had unfinished business that I didn't do. They sent me a medal that I threw in the bin um because again, it didn't feel like I was worth it. It didn't feel like I was worth that situation. And you know, the downhill spiral from that was around October time to the December where I ended up trying to take my own life and ended up in psychiatric care, was quite dramatic because it was almost like I stopped running totally from that October, become very inactive, didn't see any friends, didn't really respond to people. It's a massive like thing. So people did notice it. I mean my wife really noticed it. But again, being a guy, you just say I'm fine, I'll get on with it. You know it's we're not very good at that side of it.
Speaker 2:No, that's true, and it's interesting the rise of men's groups over the last 10, 20 years, when people in this particular society are beginning to recognize that men are really bad at expressing ourselves properly. And I think you know that comes from puberty onwards. I mean, you've got like testosterone running around you when you're a teenage boy and that kind of sets the bar. Really, you don't want to let people down, you don't want to appear stupid or you don't want to appear weak and so yeah. So that journey really sharpened for you. And did you try to take your own life? Did you get that far?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, so I did so in the december I I was very fortunate that. I mean, I did it three times without being or well. So I ended up in psychiatric care three times. Yeah, um, purely for my own safety the last time I was very lucky that I was here. Um, I was angry when I the last time.
Speaker 1:But this is the bit that people don't really understand. It's not that you're upset with the rest of the world, you're upset you can't handle things yourself. That's the reality of it. It's not the people around you that are the problem, it's actually you that is the problem. And when I got the last time just to give you a little bit of an insight of how it is I would sort of go missing like out of the blue. So I would just walk out of the house. I would walk out in a t-shirt and shorts in the middle of winter, just because I couldn't cope with the situation. I was in Again, not feeling good enough. People would then worry about you.
Speaker 1:But you know, I remember sitting on the bed the first time and I was questioning whether I should take the tablets that I've got on the bed. I've got probably 40 odd tablets out on the bed and I'm questioning in my head I'm going to do this, I'm not going to do this? Because people think that it's something that people, you know, often they plan it. It is planned in a way because you're thinking about it, but quite often it can be a split decision. It can be actually at that point that how you feel you can make that decision that can totally change your life. And I think that's the bit that people don't really understand, because, you know, quite often it comes in waves. When you're feeling that low, your ups and downs are so dramatic because you know, I mean in my head, my family didn't know what to do for me. And again I get that now. I totally understand that because we talk about it now.
Speaker 1:But it's that bit that I didn't talk about it and that's where things got worse, do you know? I mean it's almost like like that thing you said a minute ago with men's groups and stuff. If you look back over history, us men, we used to go to the pub to have conversations and talks. Now, if you look at pubs, they're now family places, they're social places. They're not actually in the same realm as what we had. So as guys, we we're not very good with emotions. So you know, the reason we go to the pub is maybe talk about the football. We talk about what's going on in the world.
Speaker 1:We, we, and as mates, we don't actually one of the questions. Again, this is with the work that I do I'm always saying to guys like, when was the last time you went out with a friend and asked how the other person's family was? You don't, because that's not how we interact. We you know my wife often used to say to me did you ask how such and such family was? I don't, because it's not that you don't care, it's just that it doesn't really enter your head. It's not because that's not how we really see, no, no, how we really seem, no, no.
Speaker 2:And and again, that's where we are very probably complicated. It's probably the easiest way to try and put it. It's an interesting thing that you say that, because we, um, what? There's a presumption that we're not very good at talking about death generally. Okay, and and I'm not so sure that that I'm not so sure that's actually true I think what it is is it's something that is in the long grass for us. Basically, you know, it's like trying to talk about the holiday that you're going to have in 10 years' time. It's kind of a bit pointless really, because it's so far away. You know you don't need to talk about it yet. It's only when it becomes in your face do you really need to address the issue.
Speaker 2:And that's how we are, I think, as men for a lot of things. Unless we're actually forced into that situation, we don't share, we don't look at ourselves and say, actually I could probably do with taking a break here, I could do with a bit of help. So tell me, what was the you know so you've gone through all of that, but somehow you've come back from that. So what was that journey back from that brink?
Speaker 1:like. It's been a long journey, jason. To be honest, it's been very up and down over them years. I mean, if you take that was around 2016 17. So I tried to take my life the first time in 2016 of the december. My last time in psychiatric care was in about the May to the June time of 2017. You take where we are now and you look where I am now and what I'm doing. This is why I do what I do. It's purely because to try and show people you can come back from what can be one of your worst times in your life and actually find a magical place to do something that is helping other people, because I think yeah, you know people who haven't seen me before. I'm a big guy, I'm six foot three. I block a lot of sun. You know people look at me and my story does resonate with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, people look at you because obviously they think, like God, he looks like he's got everything intact and you know, I can't imagine him struggling. But that's where the stereotype sort of disappears, because, you know, quite often, you know, when you talk about loss, you know, I remember very, very, very much. Just before, I sort of had my sort of white class of breakdown, a class of breakdown. Um, a good friend of mine died at the age of 50. I didn't really grieve him. Probably I'd worked with him for probably about 13, 14 years and then my mother-in-law had passed away as well.
Speaker 1:And again I feel like I'm trying to hold the whole family together and it's almost like that grief does eat you up and it's something that, again, as guys, we're not particularly good at. Like, I remember being at the funeral. I carried my friend in as a pallbearer, didn't shed a tear at all, you know. And actually, when you look at it realistically, I was struggling like hell with it because I missed it. Do you know what I mean? It was one of them things that you know I wasn't, I hadn't agreed that he'd gone. You know, like, even like when I look back at messages I had in my phone I was almost like thinking he's going to message you. But it's the acceptance and actually that talking about that, these things happen. But unless somebody brings up that conversation realistically we don't go there. We we just don't.
Speaker 2:Um, no, it's an interesting and it's sad really, because we I was talking with a friend of mine, martin Rodis, from Cruz bereavement, and there's a thing called the grieving brain and it's. We get into a friend of mine, martin Rodis, from Cruise Bereavement, and there's a thing called the grieving brain and we get into a routine of so many things. And what you said about the telephone is really interesting, expecting text message, because we get this idea of things happening on a daily basis, things that you expect to happen, and when that just stops you're a bit lost. You either engage or you don't engage. I think when you engage, you engage with that grief. When you don't engage, you're just in a lost space, aren't you? And it's not until somehow you start to properly go.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, it's different now that you can really start to get yourself back together and go through that journey that you need to go through yeah, and it's important, I think.
Speaker 1:I think that's the thing I've learned. It's important to have that grief as in you sort of embrace it in some ways of actually like talking about it, because I think, like when like you probably know a little bit about my story recently like my father-in-law passed away in March and we cared for him for the last six months He'd lived with us for six years I've been very much, a lot different with this journey. I've talked about it a hell of a lot and actually when I was doing stuff, it was almost like with my groups that we'll get into a bit later it's very much that they were supporting me because I was being able to talk about it openly, um, and actually I wasn't, and this is the massive change in me probably I'm not scared to be upset anymore. Do you know I mean about situations. It's almost like when I feel I need to let it out, I let it out, I don't hold on to it, which is probably where that's the biggest change probably in me, really that I used to hold on to it for too long, and then obviously then that's what happens.
Speaker 1:It's like an explosion going off, um, and, and sometimes when you, when you share something you know, like my story that I share about my journey with mental health. It's amazing when you do talks at events and people come up to you and they call you brave. They say I was inspiring what you've said and I never. I always say to people the reason I tell it is not to you know, inspire in that way. It's trying to help somebody. He's trying to make sure that somebody else doesn't get to the same situation as me, because I know what that feels like. Yeah, and that's horrible. You know to think of somebody being like that.
Speaker 2:Do you know? This goes back full circle, doesn't it? To what you said in the beginning, liz, is the jobs that you had weren't really the jobs that fulfilled you? And the job that really does fulfill you is helping other people. And that is amazing, because to me, that is the altruist in us all. We, as men, quite often deny. We say no, I can't do that. I mean, I was a carer for four years. I was a nurse for 15 years and a carer, cleaning up people in ways that's quite difficult for, I should imagine, most men to be able to do. You have to get quite intimate with some people, uh, and but there's a certain joy. I mean I looked after my own mom for about eight years, like you looked after, you know, your father and uh there's a certain joy in, in, in just being able to give, I think, and that's we're going to come on to that a bit more.
Speaker 2:But let's just talk about your groups and what you do do now yeah.
Speaker 1:So just to give you an insight. So in around um 20 march 2020, I lost my job in engineering. Um, during covid um, it was it's here at covid times I lost my job, the place. I knew it was closing, so I knew it was coming. But when I lost my job, at that point I sort of decided that point that I've always thought of a career change. Um, what is that I can do? So I started up a facebook page, which a lot of people will know, and the mental health runner page, which is on all different social medias. But that grew quite quickly, literally just me telling my story about who I am and what it is.
Speaker 1:And then, because I was out of work, I decided I'm going to start volunteering. So I got into volunteering with Mid and North East Essex Mind. They gave me an opportunity to volunteer for them and they were just sort of really good with me because I've been supported by them before. It was almost like me giving back again same sort of idea and they said to me what is it you want to do? Didn't really have a clue. So they said well, you like, you're running and all that bits and pieces. What about doing a walking group because you do a lot of walking. Would you like to do something like that? So that's how it sort of started. So I started doing a walking group for them once a month and then I got recognized for the work that I was doing. I was doing a Saturday morning walk, totally for free as well, on my Facebook group, and I started to build a little community of people.
Speaker 1:Other organizations started to notice what I was doing and then I got offered a job doing that role with another charitable organization and it was quite soon that I realized and other people started to realize it's not actually the walk, that's the main thing. It's the social part, it's the getting out together and being a community. And I soon realized that I'm probably very good at that because I'm very engaging. I show my vulnerability to people, which then allows them to show you theirs, which gives that. I'm probably very good at that because I'm very engaging. I show my vulnerability to people, which then allows them to show you theirs, which gives them their confidence in you. I'm very regular as in, I'm always there, so they get that consistency.
Speaker 1:But a lot of people are always saying they just feel safe because when they're out with you. They feel like you've got their back. You're always offering them different sorts of support. I'm very much a big signpost now. Um, you know, for anything, people that come my way, you know I don't look at them as my people, I look at them as a community and if there's any way I can help them with sending them somewhere else, that's what I do. Um, so it's very much yeah, and it's a lovely job. I mean, I do two walks a week. At the moment I've got two more coming up, starting um in february time. Um, like yesterday, I had 16 people out with me yesterday, out on a january day for a walk. You know, that just tells you the need for it yesterday wasn't it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was yeah, yeah, and it's amazing, you know. I mean on a thursday last thursday it was quite nippy again I had 19 people out with me, you know, it just shows you the need, and the age range is massive. I mean, I had an 18-year-old guy yesterday, a 26-year-old guy and then I had an 82-year-old lady with me. Do you know what I mean that group? So it's very diverse, but it really doesn't matter because actually they're all out just doing what they need to do and that's the most important part.
Speaker 2:so, and this is what you're getting something really positive yourself out of this. I'm pretty sure that that is. It's still part of the healing process, uh, for everything that's gone on in the last 10, 20 years and and helps you as much as you're helping other people and I think that's sometimes the nature of altruism is I get a hell of a lot out of helping other people. In a way, it's almost a little bit selfish because I get a bigger kick, I think, sometimes out of helping someone and hearing oh, thanks very much. That joke. You did all right that, jason didn't. He was very nice to me.
Speaker 1:I think I'll tell her I'll have that, so, so it's therapeutic, that's very true though, jason, it is being so true because, like quite often, people yeah people say to me quite often I'll thank you. I mean, one gentleman in particular doesn't come anymore, but actually he always used to say to me thank you for your time and actually that meant so much to me because it's actually, you know, he appreciated me. Just giving my time to him it made a massive difference to his day. And you know some of the case studies I've done and some of the messages I get, you know it does make your day. You know there's not a day that I go out and do a walking group or a running group or any other bits. I do that. I don't feel any. You know, I always feel really, really good.
Speaker 1:You know, and I think that's what I never got from my old jobs as such. You know, from coaching golf I did a little bit, because you're helping people achieve their goals, but yeah, but I think in this role it's very, very different. And you know, like another part of my job as well is, you know, I do motivational talks at events and stuff like that. And again, when you do events like that, you know I did a talk for um, a group called the essex fellows forum a few.
Speaker 1:Uh in about november time, a theater in front of 200 people, and that was very daunting and scary, don't get me wrong. But once you're up there and you're talking about it it's fine and also you're making a difference. And I think that's the bit. When you come down off that stage and people come up to you and start asking you questions and talking to you. It gives you that sense of purpose and the needs that probably I'm fulfilling, that I probably never used to fulfill it in my past. You know what I mean. It's almost. It gives you that self-worth, it gives you that self-esteem and makes you tend to look at yourself probably in a way you probably never have.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love that. I mean, it's such a it's almost a rags to riches, emotionally story, isn't it, you know? So it's a great thing to observe from the outside and to watch you, having struggled so much and being in this place now, where I would guess that you're probably although not in Nirvana, as it were but you've reached a place where you are much more comfortable being yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the true fact is I'm doing something that I'm passionate about and I love and there's a lot to be said for that and I think, like waking up every morning and knowing what you're going to go and do, you're going to enjoy. You know I love putting on my shoes on, and the other part about it is my dog enjoys it as well, because my dog comes with me from time to time. You know, my dog is probably one of the best walk dogs in the country, probably. You know. So, you know my dog is probably one of the best walk dogs in the country, probably. But you look at the actual element of what I do. You know it's funny because if you look from school where you've gone and the things you've done to actually end up where I am now and the things I do, there's no correlation of my journey, and that's what I try to teach people Like you make a career change, you can change direction and actually sometimes things happen for a reason, and I think that's the bit that I never realized back in the day that these things can change.
Speaker 1:You know, because often, often, we stay in stuff because we think we should, but actually if it's making you unhappy and whatever. Sometimes. Sometimes you have to take that step and sometimes then, decisions are made for you as well. You know it's, do you?
Speaker 2:know I think there's. A beautiful thing is that I was told once, and I've repeated this several times is if you're not happy doing what you're doing, make a plan. Okay, it doesn't have to be a big plan, it doesn't have to be a life-changing plan, but if you've got a plan, you've got something you can change, you've got something you can add to. There's something that you can move, and that is one of the best bits of advice I was ever given was you know, if you're struggling with something, make a plan, make a change, you know, and that and it doesn't have to be dramatic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I mean, and that's the bit that people tend to get overwhelmed with, isn't it? Because it's almost like they want to make changes. You know, if you take New Year, new Year I don't particularly like New Year because I just look at it and I think you're setting people up to fail, because what tends to happen is people make New Year's resolutions going to do this at the hardest time probably of the year and then all of a sudden they're destined to fail. But if you change yeah, one little thing you know, say, say, for instance, you're going to maybe cut sugar out something, something like that. You know, trying to do it on a gradual basis, you might be able to do it, but if you try and cut everything out straight away, you're destined to crave for that or need that. Or if you say I'm going to run every day and I've never run before, you know, for 30 days, it's not really achievable because you've got to build up gradually. And I think that's the bit that I suppose I come into that from again even a coaching background that I know that you know helping somebody. You've got to be honest with them and say, look, these changes are going to take time and that's why my story is really important to tell.
Speaker 1:But people often come to me and go. They see themselves in you and see, oh, they want to get to where you are. But I always say to them it's your story, it's your journey. You're very different to me, but actually look how long it's taken me to get where I am. But actually it's been a journey and it's been a journey and you can go on that journey but you won't get the results you want straight away. You've got to be honest about it because you know you can't go from where I was to doing what I'm doing now. You know, in a heartbeat it just doesn't work. Um, no, do you know? Interestingly, I think this is where this is.
Speaker 2:This is where dr michael mosley and his doing changing, making one thing that you can change about your life was so popular, because it wasn't. It was life changing, but there were just tiny little things that you could do, like just eating more slowly. I mean, you know, who knew that that could be had such an effect on people, you know? And yeah, I think that was a great loss when we lost him. So, yeah, yeah, okay, well, listen, thank you for sharing this story, and maybe I shouldn't thank you, maybe I should just say I hope that made you feel warm and cozy, because it did me. So there you go. And so I would like to come on to another thing, because Col Colchester has, where we both lurk around in Colchester, has been nominated, not nominated. What is it? It's given a compassionate city status.
Speaker 2:They've actually got it now they're a compassionate city, yeah yeah, compassionate city and as a part of that um, you have nominated somebody to become a compassionate champion, and that is janine. So what's her full name? May I ask?
Speaker 1:can you remember? So it's janine parsons.
Speaker 2:Her name, janine's date, janine parsons now, uh, the whole thing about the um, compassionate champion is, it's to explore that actual word, isn't it? It's compassion, what makes somebody compassionate, and you know obviously from your point of view she's been on a bit of a journey with you. So can you tell us a little bit about that and why her in particular you would nominate as a compassionate champion?
Speaker 1:yeah, just a little bit into her story. Really, um, with the work that I was doing in my old job doing walking groups, um she came along, um, I met her probably a couple of years ago. Um, she was currently struggling, she was out of work. Um, she was working but she'd lost the job and literally few things that were happening. But she was very interesting from the start. She always was in the group and always wanted to help people. Very similar to myself in some ways, a bit low on confidence, I would probably say. But almost like coming to the groups and stuff. She started to grow but she wanted to give, she wanted to give back quite regularly. So came to the groups and stuff. She started to grow, but she wanted to give, she wanted to give back quite regularly. So came to the groups and soon, you know, she started to say I'd like to volunteer. So she started volunteering, got involved in that. Um, and even to this day she still volunteers in, uh, the place where I used to work.
Speaker 1:And I think what's amazing is it's not just the volunteering she does, she goes above and beyond. You know she helps some of them, group members, on a regular basis. You know there's a. There's a guy that you know she quite often has taken out. He's in a wheelchair who can't get out himself, and she'll go and do bits and pieces for him, you know, and no fault for herself, but just to help, because if that person didn't get that help they wouldn't be able to get out.
Speaker 1:And I think you know, anytime I pick up the phone and say like I could do with your help with one of my groups because I've got a lot of people come in or whatever, she's always there and I think you know when I look at it. You know quite often these people get missed in society. You know people don't notice what people, other people, are doing. You know, like what we're talking about with carers and stuff like that, and quite often I think we don't recognize them. And that's why I thought it was really important to just give somebody the recognition they deserve because they're doing so much good work. But obviously not many people are seeing that and I think it's important to recognise the people, especially in cultures around the country, that are all doing that.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Yeah, you know, I think this is a beautiful initiative that Greg Cooper from St Helena Hospices has put together. I don't know if he put it together, I don't know. I think he certainly is pushing it out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just to give you an insight into it. I mean, this has been going on a long time. So you know, cultures have got compassionate city status in them. I think it was the may time, but I'd been doing a lot of work with greg in the background, um, and a lot of that work was around the walking groups that I was doing in my past role. We were tending to look at what community there was there and I was doing a walking group for the hospice and stuff like that, and we were starting to notice that there was a community out there that needed a bit of direction.
Speaker 1:Really, probably, and what we suppose what we've done is we've grown that to now build, bring in organizations, businesses, um, individuals, other groups. And it's quite amazing now because, like, we've got our next meet up on the 7th of february, um, at the one community health and culture stuff and it's open to everybody. But what's lovely at the last one, when we're at the hospice, you know there was probably 20 people there. But what's lovely is we had organizations there who were just sharing what they do. But the community is sharing what they do as well, and obviously that's the bit that we're really trying to push, because there's so many things that are happening out there that a lot of us don't know, and we all hold a lot of information, but the only way we're going to actually do that is by sharing it, so that's ultimately what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2:There's a couple of good, great things in there.
Speaker 2:One is that people don't get recognised for the good stuff that they do and we are so very bad at um saying, yeah, I did that because I enjoyed helping, uh, because we don't want to blow our own trumpet or what I'm saying. I'm here to say blow your own trumpet, you know, because if you're doing good stuff, it might inspire other people to do the good stuff. So, yeah, do blow your own trumpet. And the other thing is is I remember you saying it started off with about three or four people and now there's 20 people and organizations, and if you don't start something, you know that first few steps, uh, and here you are kind of walking a whole route of compassion and recognition for people and I think it's just a beautiful thing that's that's beginning to grow and mushroom out there. So well done, the pair of you.
Speaker 1:Really yeah, I mean the work greg does, the work greg has done on the project is incredible, like I mean, to get it to where we've got to now is fantastic.
Speaker 1:And I think, like the awards that are going out on this thursday actually so on the 23rd and they're very much um, for there'll be places that will get a recognition, there'll be organizations that get recognition and people, so how the awards work is them, you know, there might be an organization that is doing really good work so they'll recognize them as a champion.
Speaker 1:Then there'll be maybe a place that could be like a, a cup of coffee shop, or it could be like a pub, or it could even be like a charitable. But it could even be like a charitable, it could be anything. But what's lovely is when we do the awards, the mayor comes to do the award ceremony, we do it at the town hall and that sort of bits and pieces. So it's really nice for the recipients as well. They get a full treatment of that, you know, and actually get a lovely certificate to stay, all of these things. And I think that is so important because actually that makes other people look at them people in a different way and actually may inspire them to do something similar themselves, and I think that's what we're trying to do yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:do you know what I'll confess? I did nominate somebody myself when it was an organization, the Tom Bowditch charity, with yes, yeah, yeah, because I was there when they got their award. Yeah, I couldn't be there. It was so annoying. Just one of those things. And they have since and not on the back of my nomination, I'll just say, but they have since for their charity work, teenagers and cancer and supporting young adults. They are now being given an MBE. So you know, I think.
Speaker 1:I know they are. Yeah, I know, that's just you know, unbelievable.
Speaker 2:I met Richard in the shop and I said in the co-op, and I said, well, how are you? And he just turned to the newspaper and said, well, I'm an MBE now, so that's just, you know it's brilliant. And paper and said, well, I'm an mbe now, so that's just, you know it's brilliant. And I just think that there it was on the front page of the good grief, and uh it was a just a beautiful movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I saw that in the news and it's. It is beautiful because there's a lot of hard work gone into where they've got to and obviously it comes from a sad place as well.
Speaker 1:It's the same situation, isn't it? So, yeah, you know, I think you know it does show you that sometimes, as much as they're very, very sad, people do sometimes come out and make a massive difference to other people's lives. And I think you know there's a lot of people in the community that do that and a lot of people are carrying a lot of baggage sometimes and sometimes being able to share that baggage with other people, you know there's there's a lot of what I class as empathy for each other. When you come across the group, people are very understanding and very, very much there for each other, and I think that's which we all need at times. Do you know what I mean? And I think sometimes somebody might come to the group and it might be their time where they've got something that's happened in their lives that they need a bit of support, but actually the whole group comes together and offers that support and might offer a signpost of where they can get extra help and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:And I think sometimes strangers are sometimes easier to speak to than our families, sometimes as well, and I think that's the bit that people don't really understand. You know, having groups like that are really important for society, because quite often, you know, there is a lot of lonely people out there, but there's also people who are in families that want to have somewhere where they can talk, because they just feel they maybe can't talk with them, not because it's a bad thing, but it's almost like they don't know how to. Again, it's that, yeah, and if they can find a place to open up, that might open that door to learn how to do that. You know that's the it is quite easy.
Speaker 2:It is quite often, quite often, easier to talk to someone else who's not involved with all the minutiae of your life and and it is so that you know they can get a different picture and you can offload a little bit.
Speaker 1:It's easier to do that with strangers. Sometimes it's how the whole of therapy works.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes you know it's uh, you could. Of course it is because there's no emotional connection, is that? No, no, I mean, my wife often says you know that I'm her therapist, but I don't think that's entirely true. I mean, I did do psychotherapy back in the day. But you, the very striking thing is that it's easier to talk to somebody who's not involved in the problem, because they might actually be part of the problem, part of your communication problem. I can't talk to my wife, can't talk to my kids, because I don't feel, like you know, that I should burden them or that you know that they would be listening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's, yeah, so to other people, it's not much easier. The burden bit is a big thing, though, isn't it? The burden part, I think, is especially men, especially in that way. Going back to men, you know, we just think we shouldn't put that problem on somebody else, but the reality is we've got to find somewhere to do it. You know what I mean else, but the reality is we've got to find somewhere to do it.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean otherwise it's not a good ending.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Right, listen, talking about endings, I think we ought to call it there, because otherwise I could just sit and chat with you for yonks about this whole thing, you know it's very emotive it's a very emotive subject and heartwarming as well. So, listen, I just want to say thanks. Now, how can people contact you if they?
Speaker 1:need to. So the best way is social media is. I mean, I'm pretty big on social media, so you'd always find me as the Mental Health Runner on Facebook, instagram, tiktok, x, whatever there is. But also you could email me. I've got a website at the moment being designed at the moment, so I will have a website coming up soon as well. So you know they're the easiest way to find me, but you'll just find me as the mental health writer. If you put that in, you'll find me. And, like I say, you're always welcome to come to a walk. I do running. Like I said, we didn't cover the running group, but I do a running group on a wednesday evening as well, um, which, again, is open to everybody. So you'll find all those things on my, on my social media as well. They're on my events page on there as well. So if you want to come, you're more than welcome well, that's brilliant.
Speaker 2:I've got to say. It's been a an absolute pleasure again speaking with sean and, uh, very best of luck with it all, and who knows where this is going to lead. Maybe you know, as I say to many of my guests, it'd be great to talk to you in about a year's time and see how this whole thing has developed for you and everybody 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that'd be great. Definitely, jason, definitely Okay. Well, it'd be great talking to you as well, to be told the honest with you. Yeah, yeah, it's been great talking to you as well, to be told the honest with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's been good this as well. It's been fun. You know I mean as much as you know I do this a lot, so this is not something I'm not unusual for doing. So with doing podcasts, you know people often say, like, when I talk about my story, it's very much I'm. You know I'm telling that and it's hard for some people sometimes to listen to, but I'm so used to telling it and it's my therapy. Like when you go back to that thing, it's therapy. You know, it's my way of dealing with it and actually knowing how how far I've come and that actually I'm doing something good now.
Speaker 2:So that's the important part yeah, I think it's good to be a little bit self-indulgent, because both you and I just enjoy chatting really, so that's okay so uh yeah, listen, yeah, and that's good yeah, thank you very much sean. Once again, the mental health runner uh from and around colchester and areas, all right, thanks very much sean cheers, jason okay okay, hang on. Well, yeah, we're all done. Let's stop the recording there.
